From Rock Bottom to Podcast Stardom: A Candid Talk with Kevin Palmieri of Next Level University

[00:00:00] So tell us about how you got into podcasting and I guess like how was it different than you thought it was going to be?

[00:00:09] So what was starting the business with your partner? What was it like getting you off the ground?

[00:00:18] So did you have an I made it moment kind of thing? What was your lowest point and did you ever there be? Did you ever get counseling?

[00:00:32] Welcome to the Wheel With It Podcast with your host Devon at Wheel With It. No matter who you are or where you come from, there's a place for you. On this show, we have real conversations with fascinating people. Let's get into the episode.

[00:00:43] Hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of Wheel With It. I am your host Devon Wieters and today on the show we have Kevin Palmieri. He is so cool. He was so fun to talk to. He is Alan's business partner.

[00:00:56] So we talked about the business. We talked about his personal journey. We talked about a little bit of everything. I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. It's one of my favorites. So here is my conversation with Kevin Palmieri.

[00:01:10] Hello, welcome to another episode of Wheel With It. And today my guest is Kevin Palmieri. How are you today?

[00:01:18] I'm doing very well, my friend. You and I had a little conversation behind the scenes. I'm excited to be here. I appreciate you having me and I am excited to see where we go with our talk today.

[00:01:27] And I am your host, Devin Wieters. I should have mentioned that up at the top.

[00:01:32] Devin, tell us about yourself and we will get started.

[00:01:36] Today I am the host of a podcast called Next Level University with 1,860 episodes and I get to do this for a living now, which is quite literally a dream come true.

[00:01:46] But that's not where I started. I was raised by my mom and my grandmother. I didn't know my dad.

[00:01:51] I didn't meet my dad until I was 27. Grew up lower middle class. Didn't have any idea what I wanted to do with my life.

[00:02:00] And after high school, I decided to just get a job. And I worked at a gas station. I cleaned floors and bathrooms at a hospital. I did many things.

[00:02:09] Eventually, I got a job that paid me a lot of money and I had a really good job. I was in really good shape. My girlfriend at the time was a model.

[00:02:16] I had all the things that you thought would bring happiness, but I still ended up sitting on the edge of a bed contemplating suicide two years after that.

[00:02:25] And then I left all of that to do this podcasting thing. And I've been doing podcasting full time since 2018.

[00:02:32] So tell us about how you got into podcasting and I guess like how was it different than you thought it was going to be? And like how was it the same?

[00:02:42] So you chatted with my business partner, Alan interviewed me on his YouTube channel that he used to have.

[00:02:50] And at the end of the interview, I said to one of my other buddies who was there, I said, imagine if you could do that for a living.

[00:02:56] And he said, there's people out there that do. So that for me was the initial bug of, okay, this podcasting thing could be a thing.

[00:03:04] And coincidentally, at the same time, I had achieved all of this quote unquote success, but I didn't know who I was.

[00:03:11] I had no self-awareness. So all of these things meshed up nicely. I had the awareness of this YouTube thing is a thing.

[00:03:19] There's podcasting that's attached to it. And I had this little quarter life crisis.

[00:03:23] So I was exposed to it from Alan really. And then I just fell in love with it.

[00:03:29] It was, I don't know. I think everybody starts Devin and they assume it's going to go better than it does.

[00:03:35] They do. I assumed it was going to go better than it did.

[00:03:39] Same. It's like, I'm going to record a couple episodes. Next thing you know, I'll be making boatloads of money, even though I didn't really, it wasn't about the money for me, but, or I'll get an audience really quickly.

[00:03:48] So I think that was a piece of it for me is I just didn't understand how much work it was going to be.

[00:03:53] And I didn't understand how much I was going to have to learn. I didn't understand that I was going to have to go find the audience.

[00:03:59] Everything was different than I thought it was, Devin, for sure.

[00:04:02] Yes. People think it's easy. I'm like, no, you should see like the, like the, like editing load that I have to do and the social media and the, all that stuff.

[00:04:16] That's why people quit because this part is really fun. But when you and I leave here and you end up doing the editing and you're posting it on social media and you're doing all that stuff, that's when it's not as fun as this. So I very much understand.

[00:04:30] Yes. So what was starting the business with your partner? What was it like getting off the ground?

[00:04:36] It was really fun in the beginning. In the beginning, it was really fun because it didn't seem as serious as it was, but we would spend a lot of time together and we would literally just lock ourselves in the studio.

[00:04:51] So our first podcast studio was his mother's in his mother's house in his sister's old bedroom. So we would meet and we would spend all day together. We would record episodes. We would talk about business. We would work on our self worth and our self belief and our self improvement.

[00:05:09] And in the beginning it was really fun because it felt like a, a fun hobby. And then as we started to understand that we had to make money with this, it got more stressful for sure.

[00:05:20] But it was really cool because my business partner and I are really good friends and I can count on one hand how many times we've had fights over the last seven years. So in the beginning it was like building something with somebody that you loved deeply and you knew that you were blessed to have that person in your corner.

[00:05:40] It's a very, I think it's a very rare thing that we have. I'm not worried about us not being business partners ever. A lot of people have told us it's dangerous what we're doing, but I don't know. I think Alan and I are going to be just fine. And that was what I felt in the beginning. So it was really fun and there was a lot of learning to do obviously, but yeah, it was something that was really fun. And I look back with positive memories for sure.

[00:06:01] Tell us like how was it transitioning from a career or whatever you did before to a business?

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[00:06:34] One of the things that's interesting, Devin is a lot of people think, yeah, if I had all the time in the world to do what I love, life would be so easy. Come to find out for me when there's nobody watching over you and there's no time clock and you don't have a boss.

[00:06:49] It's really hard to make sure you're doing the right things consistently. It's easy to sleep in. It's easy to stay up late watching movies when there's nobody looking over you. That was the transition for me of I'm used to having to be at a certain place at a certain time and work there for X amount of hours.

[00:07:08] Now I'm left to my own devices to figure this out. So working on self-discipline was huge. That was really important. Figuring out what's a good morning routine for me? What's a good nighttime routine? Do I work better getting up early or do I work better working late?

[00:07:24] That's something that I figured out pretty early on. And again, in the beginning, I didn't really have much say. I worked whenever I had to work. That was important in the beginning.

[00:07:34] And then the other thing was I didn't know anything about business. I didn't know anything about sales, marketing, any of this stuff. So a lot of my time went into what are the most important things for me to learn in order to actually grow and scale a business and figure out money and figure out sales and all that.

[00:07:53] So that was the kind of the unsexy part of it is all of the learning that I did in the first couple of years for the stuff that I just didn't know yet.

[00:08:00] So did you have an I made it moment kind of thing?

[00:08:05] I've had a bunch. I've had a bunch of I made it moments. The one that always sticks out for me the most was, so Alan and I, my business partner and I went to the same middle school. We went to the same high school. We grew up in the same town.

[00:08:19] And there was this radio station we used to listen to. And there was a morning show that I listened to from the time that I was 18 until, I don't know, maybe like 23 or 24.

[00:08:32] And one of the people on the morning show, her name is Danielle. And she always seemed like just a really good, sweet human being.

[00:08:38] Maybe two years in, yeah, probably like our second year, we got the opportunity to go to her house and interview her in person.

[00:08:46] And after that, we stopped at this beach on the way home. We had packed all of our equipment up, our cameras.

[00:08:53] And I would just remember sitting at the beach crying because it was such a weird thing for me. I never thought anything like that was going to happen.

[00:08:59] So that was very much an I made it moment. And there's been a lot of other ones along the way.

[00:09:06] But here, this is the interesting thing. I think what happens is you're so focused on the next what will I make moment that you're not really that focused on the I made it moment anymore.

[00:09:18] That's been an interesting piece for me. We crossed a million dollars and a million listens on the same day.

[00:09:25] Whoa, that's interesting.

[00:09:27] It was very interesting. But in my mind, it was like, all right, cool, that's done. What's the next thing?

[00:09:34] So it's I made it. And then what do I want to make? It happens pretty quick.

[00:09:38] I would like to think I would celebrate if we got to a million listens. But sometimes I'm like, okay, like what's next?

[00:09:45] Yeah, yeah, I understand. The other thing is you don't go from zero to a million. Like you're at 999,000 the day before.

[00:09:53] So you know you're getting close. So it's not as it's not as like, it's not like lottery where you just wake up one day.

[00:10:03] You're getting close.

[00:10:05] Yeah, you're expecting it.

[00:10:05] So I know your partner's growing up was pretty traumatic. What about you? You're growing up?

[00:10:12] Yeah, definitely different than his. I growing up without a dad. He grew up without his father as well.

[00:10:19] Growing up without a dad was really hard for me because I think I blamed myself for the fact that my dad wasn't around, even though logically, I was a baby.

[00:10:28] So I didn't have I had very little to do with him leaving, didn't have a lot of money. So that kind of became a wound for me.

[00:10:35] And that's something that I had to work through. And I'm still working through my own money mindset stuff.

[00:10:39] But outside of that, my childhood was fairly normal. I would say I didn't really have many traumatic things happen in my life.

[00:10:48] There were a couple of mental health things in my family that I dealt with when I was growing up.

[00:10:54] But outside of that, all things considered, I would say my childhood was normal.

[00:10:58] Yeah. Besides the obvious, like I, which is why it's weird that I've had all these like health, mental health problems because two great parents.

[00:11:08] Of course, the obvious of my disability. But other than that, it was normal.

[00:11:13] My friends, I do.

[00:11:14] Normal is contextual. That's the thing is, what is normal even? I don't even know what normal is.

[00:11:20] It's like you think yours is normal and everybody thinks theirs is normal. So that's even that's hard to say what's normal.

[00:11:27] Yeah. What was your lowest point? And did you ever get a therapy? Did you ever get counseling?

[00:11:34] My lowest point, I was sitting in a hotel room. So I part of my job involved a lot of travel.

[00:11:42] So I spent days, weeks, months on the road over the course of the year. The year I was the most successful financially, I spent 10 months living on the road in hotels.

[00:11:52] So one morning I was on the road. I was in New Jersey, which is six hours from where I lived.

[00:11:57] My alarm clock went off at 515. I sat up. I slid to the edge of the bed. I was lacing up my work boots.

[00:12:04] And the best way to explain it, Devin, that morning it was like there was 10 televisions on in my head at the same time.

[00:12:09] And every single one was on a different station.

[00:12:12] That is like the most accurate explanation I have ever heard. Yes, that's it's I'm not even making it up.

[00:12:19] Like that's the best way to explain it for me. It's just noise and overwhelm and just so much.

[00:12:25] And it was essentially it was Kev, you got lucky to be where you are today.

[00:12:30] I know you don't like your job. I know you're depressed. I know you're anxious.

[00:12:35] I know you're struggling with mental health. It doesn't matter. You need this job.

[00:12:39] You got lucky. You're never going to find something like this again.

[00:12:42] For me, it's because I'm on they call it a Medicaid waiver and it's supposed to help people with disabilities, but it's got all these unfair restrictions.

[00:12:51] You can make you can only make thirty six thousand dollars and still qualify.

[00:12:56] And like these chairs cost like forty thousand dollars.

[00:13:00] And so it's either and not even that's how you pay your caregivers and they're not paying them much anyways.

[00:13:06] But that's how you pay the caregiver that'll buy some miracle work for that little money.

[00:13:13] And so it's just it's either you should be grateful that you have parents that can help you pay for stuff.

[00:13:19] So you have a semi normal life or like you should say school the waiver and go back to school and get a high paying job.

[00:13:30] And but perhaps we're in the retirement while you're getting licensed and trained and everything.

[00:13:36] So I don't know. That's my commandment right now.

[00:13:40] I can only imagine. I can only imagine.

[00:13:43] It's just you should be lucky, but you don't want to sit around here and do nothing because I don't make any money out this yet.

[00:13:50] You don't want to sit around here and do nothing and have no income.

[00:13:54] And yeah, and of course, my parents have set me up to be moderately OK, like once they pass away.

[00:14:02] But still, you want to make your own money.

[00:14:05] Of course. And that's the thing that I was struggling with.

[00:14:08] That was a big piece of it is I'm never going to make money like this again.

[00:14:11] I am so lucky to have this job, even though I'm absolutely miserable.

[00:14:17] And then the other thing was, if I ever did leave this job, what would my friends say?

[00:14:22] I make more money than all of my friends.

[00:14:23] What's my family going to say?

[00:14:25] I make more money than any of my family.

[00:14:27] And then the big one for me, Devin, was do you really think you're going to be a podcaster?

[00:14:32] That's what you're going to do.

[00:14:33] You're going to leave a six figure job and then do this podcast thing full time.

[00:14:36] And it was in that moment where I thought to myself, if I just take my life, I'll take my problems with me.

[00:14:40] And that was the lowest.

[00:14:42] That was the rock bottom basement moment.

[00:14:45] And at that point, I had already been to therapy and I already been to counseling.

[00:14:48] And that's something that I pursued after.

[00:14:50] But and that was really helpful for me.

[00:14:52] Yeah, not to get too deep.

[00:14:54] I thought that, too.

[00:14:55] If I died tomorrow, it would all be over.

[00:14:58] But then I'm like, OK, no, that's stupid.

[00:15:02] Because if it changes and you won't be here to see the.

[00:15:06] But yeah, that's something I struggled with, too.

[00:15:09] I'm good.

[00:15:10] I'm getting better now.

[00:15:11] But I told you this behind the scenes.

[00:15:13] I'm glad you're here with us.

[00:15:14] Just like I'm glad to be.

[00:15:15] I'm glad to be here with us.

[00:15:17] What are you doing now?

[00:15:18] What's the update on the business?

[00:15:19] Like, how's it going?

[00:15:20] It's yeah, it's going really well.

[00:15:22] We do.

[00:15:23] So we do an episode every day.

[00:15:24] So we do seven episodes a week.

[00:15:26] Eighteen hundred or eighteen hundred and sixty in.

[00:15:29] I have another podcast about podcasts called Podcast Growth University.

[00:15:33] That would be a good one for you because it's all about podcasting and growing the business.

[00:15:37] So that I do every week.

[00:15:39] And we produce 50 some odd podcasts.

[00:15:42] So I'm coaching podcasters all the time.

[00:15:44] Our team has grown.

[00:15:46] The Facebook group has grown.

[00:15:47] It is very overwhelming and there's always a lot to do.

[00:15:51] But I do get those moments where I wake up and pinch myself and say, look, I can do I get to make my own schedule.

[00:15:57] I can work in my pajamas.

[00:15:58] I get to do whatever I want.

[00:16:00] I get to live my dreams.

[00:16:01] So, yeah, it's very busy, very overwhelming, very stressful.

[00:16:05] It's a lot better than it was in the beginning when I couldn't pay my bills.

[00:16:09] Yes, that if I could just make even five bucks off this like that would be amazing because then I would at least say, OK, at least it's some kind of worth it.

[00:16:24] So where can people find out more about you?

[00:16:27] Do you guys have a website?

[00:16:29] Where can they follow you on social media?

[00:16:30] Yeah.

[00:16:31] Yeah.

[00:16:31] So the podcast is Next Level University.

[00:16:33] That's on YouTube.

[00:16:35] That's on all the podcast platforms.

[00:16:37] The website is Next Level Universe.

[00:16:40] And then you can find me on Instagram.

[00:16:42] It's probably the best place.

[00:16:43] If you have Instagram, my handle is at Never Quit Kid.

[00:16:47] That is the great Instagram handle.

[00:16:51] Thank you.

[00:16:52] I have Never Quit tattooed on my arm.

[00:16:53] So that's that was what it was.

[00:16:55] Oh, that is a good tattoo.

[00:16:56] You guys need to go check out the YouTube video of this.

[00:17:01] If you're listening on audio, just see that tattoo.

[00:17:03] I appreciate it.

[00:17:05] You can follow me on social media at We Were With It Pod for the podcast and Devin Wieters for me.

[00:17:12] And we will see you guys next episode.

[00:17:15] Bye, guys.

[00:17:16] Sorry for the little bit of technical difficulty in today's video podcast.

[00:17:20] If you're watching on YouTube, I had to crop some stuff out.

[00:17:24] It looks weird in some spots.

[00:17:25] And that's the only way I knew how to do it.

[00:17:28] So it won't look that way next week.

[00:17:30] I really love that conversation.

[00:17:32] And I hope you guys did too.

[00:17:34] Remember to follow him on social media using the links in the show notes.

[00:17:38] And we will see you guys next episode.

[00:17:41] Thank you for joining us.

[00:17:42] We hope you enjoyed the show.

[00:17:43] Remember to follow the show and our guests on social media.

[00:17:46] And subscribe to the show on YouTube or in your favorite podcast app using the links in the show notes.

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[00:17:55] See you next time.